Interview with Rev. Lynn Smilie Nesbitt

Rev. Lynn Smilie Nesbitt  and Anna Grace Glaize

Rev. Lynn Nesbitt is an Associate Pastor at Dothan First Methodist UMC with over 40 years of experience in ordained ministry. She graciously allowed us to share a church service she crafted for Maundy Thursday. The service, called “I Am Here; I Bear Witness,” allows the women of Holy Week to speak for themselves.  This interview was conducted on April 11 and has been edited for clarity and length. 

AGG: You shared with us a resource of a service that you did for Maundy Thursday…in which the women of Holy Week get a chance to speak for themselves. So I’m wondering, how did that idea come about? 

Rev. Lynn: I wanted to do something for Holy Week that was different from what had been done before. It’s great to have a sermon and have Holy Communion. I’ve done foot washings, I’ve done handwashings. And then I realized that we were ignoring some voices that were absolutely there—and those are the voices of the women. If most people were to draw a picture of Maundy Thursday, there would not be any women in that picture. And I don’t think that’s accurate. I determined that I would only use material that was actually in the Scripture. I’d use a little bit of imagination, I’d talk about feelings because the Scripture doesn’t have feelings, but I would not invent somebody who was there. I would only use people that we have reason to believe are there. That’s why I actually footnoted the biblical references for everything so you can go look for yourself. 

AGG: I saw that. 

Rev. Lynn: I mean, you can find them yourself! I wanted something that would stir people’s imagination, so I had all of the women (we had laywomen and clergywomen there)... and we all dressed in “Biblical Costume.” We have a closet full of that at the church. So we all wore things that would help people imagine that. We didn’t act it out; we simply told our story. And it was very well-received. 

AGG: It reminded me of Vacation Bible School when you’d go into the story rooms. I did think, “Oh wow, we don’t present the Bible stories in this way when we’re grown up!”

Rev. Lynn: I grew up in the era where people used flannel board to teach Sunday School, which I, by the way, think is a fabulous idea! It’s not a bad idea at all…My Momma taught four-year olds-and so my Daddy got a board and stretched flannel across it. And then the literature came with pop-out figures, and you’d move them on the board so that the children could envision them. I think that’s a great idea! But they’re two-dimensional figures. I think a lot of figures in Scripture are two-dimensional to us. We hear the name, maybe we can list some things about them. I had a professor of Old Testament in seminary at Candler at Emory, Dr. Miller, and I took History of Israel from him. He started talking about these folks [biblical characters], and I thought, “He knows these people. He absolutely knows them.” My first thought was, “I want to know them so well that if I met Sarah in the produce aisle of the grocery store, I’d recognize her.” I want to know her as a person, not just as a flat two-dimensional figure. So, probably, that background of being taught on flannel board and then having Dr. Miller, probably that fed into that, too.

Who were these women? I don’t think most people realize that Luke says the women financed Jesus’ ministry…Everything has to be paid for. There’s a price. Jesus’ ministry had to be paid for. Somebody had to replace the sandals that were worn out. Somebody had to buy the food. There had to be money for that. And Luke tells us that the women were the ones who supplied the money to finance Jesus’ ministry. I don’t think most people know that. That’s not my speculation. It says it! 

AGG: Going into this process, did you have a favorite woman of Holy Week? 

Rev. Lynn: Probably Mary Magdalene. I think she is much maligned. 

AGG: She is. 

Rev. Lynn:...Any time that someone feels that they must attack another person, the person they’re attacking must have some real power. So, Mary Magdalene’s been attacked so much that I want to know what it is about her that scares you so badly. 

AGG: It really started with a pope who preached a very bad sermon. 

Rev. Lynn: Indeed. Indeed, but I wonder if he didn’t pick some of that up…We don’t have a history of things he was told about her. But she was the first one to proclaim the Gospel. Jesus directly told her to go tell his disciples that he was risen from the dead. Well, there is no greater thing to preach than the resurrection of Jesus, and there is no more exalted audience than his disciples…Jesus told Mary Magdalene to do that. 

I was reared in a very conservative United Methodist church and no one told me that women couldn’t be pastors, but certainly, no one told me that they could be pastors either…When they’d have a revival and we’d go to at least one night of the revival…I was about five years old, and there was a woman preaching that night. And the man introduced her by saying, he quoted Samuel Johnson (I didn’t know that when I was five years old), he said, “Seeing a woman preach is like watching a dog walk on its hind legs. It’s never done well, and you’re surprised to see it done at all.” Everybody laughed just before she got up to preach, and my five-year-old self was offended. That’s the first woman I ever heard preach…

I think until I visited Candler as a prospective student, I don’t think I’d heard another woman preach. Remember that I went into Candler in 1977…There were very few women clergy…I certainly didn’t have any role models, and I lot of people were telling me I didn’t belong there at all and that Jesus said I didn’t belong there at all. But I just don’t think you can argue with Mary Magdalene. I just don’t think you can. So, Mary Magdalene. 

AG: Reading it [Rev. Lynn’s Maundy Thursday service], I liked that you gave the High Priest’s servant her due, because I think a lot of times she’s seen as a villain in that story, but she’s just saying what she knows to be true. She’s saying, “Wait! But I saw you!” That’s not a crime. 

Rev. Lynn:...The High Priest’s servant, she’s not a weighty individual in that society. But she spoke up. And a Gospel writer managed to include what she said. 

AG: This is a great way to include women in the life of the church. Are there other ways that you try to highlight women in your ministry? 

Rev. Lynn: I remember the preachers in my home church…many times they were very wonderful people, but they used a lot of golfing illustrations, and a small percentage of the men even golfed in my church! And football illustrations that left me cold…I think inclusivity is not just who you have at the table, it’s how you talk. When I preach, I try to deliberately use stories that children can relate to and older people. I mean, there’s all kinds of being inclusive…I try to have something that if you’re physically able to sit in that pew and listen, that I have something you can see yourself in. I think part of it is just being aware of folks. 

AG: Is there anything else about the women of Holy Week, the experience of writing this, or even just your life in ministry that you wanna close on? 

Rev. Lynn: I did not get a lot of encouragement when I was going into ministry. I got a lot of people telling me why I shouldn’t do it…therefore the people who did encourage me really stood out to me. Ernest Andress was on the Board of Ordained Ministry, and they would come to seminary once in the fall and once in the spring and take us out to eat, and they’d often give us rides…Ernest looked at us and said, “I’m so glad I get to be in ministry with the two of you.” And I survived on that morsel for decades. It made all the difference in the world to me…I began to realize that if I’m being left out, there are probably other folks…I’ve never forgotten Ernest Andress saying that one throw-away line, that he probably forgot he said, but it meant a lot to me. 

A Maundy Thursday Service

“I Am Here; I Bear Witness”

By Rev. Lynn Smilie Nesbitt

Narrator

Luke tells us, at the beginning of Jesus’ ministry: “And certain women who had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities –Mary called Magdalene, out of whom had come seven demons, and Joanna, wife of Chuza, Herod’s steward, and Susannah, and many other who provided for him from their substance.”[1]

We know that these women are in Jerusalem during Holy Week; we know that they are at the cross.  We have no written sources that tell what these women are doing on Maundy Thursday.  This presentation takes what we do know, what the scriptures say, and, within those boundaries, lets the women tell their stories.  Each story they tell is recorded in the gospels.  Hear now these voices from the shadows, the testimony of the women.

Susanna

My name is Susanna. We here tonight are the hidden ones, the ones always present, but always in the shadows.  The other women and I began following Jesus at the beginning.  We are the ones who finance his ministry. We are the ones who buy the food. We pay for lodging. We replace the sandals worn out from walking these rocky, dusty roads.  We followed him into Jerusalem and were part of the parade into Jerusalem last Sunday.  And we are here tonight, helping to prepare the food.  

I am here.  I bear witness.

Mary the Mother of Jesus

I am Mary, widow of Joseph, mother of Jesus.  Now that I am alone in the world, I travel with my son Jesus.  No mother ever forgets the birth of her children, but I have more to remember than most.  I have more to puzzle over, trying to understand. Never have I been so proud as when we walked into Jerusalem last Sunday, the crowds welcoming all of us, but especially my little boy—because he will always be my little boy. Tonight I helped the other women prepare and serve the food, withdrawing to the shadows as the men ate, vigilant in case there be any need.  And I saw Jesus, my Jesus, tell them that he was giving them a new commandment.  I saw him take the towel and basin and kneel, washing their feet.  I do not understand this.  He is their teacher, their rabbi; why is he acting as a servant? [2] I do not understand, but I feel that something has changed, the universe has shifted somehow. 

After supper I saw him take the bread, bless it, break it and share it with the twelve.  “This is my body broken for you,” he said,   “Eat and remember.”  Then he took the cup, blessed it, and shared it with the twelve.  “This is my blood,” he said.[3]  My own blood ran cold.  What does this mean?

I am here; I bear witness.

Music Interlude

Mary Magdalene

I am Mary of Magdala.  Jesus saved me.[4]  I don’t mean that he keeps me from going to hell, although he certainly does that.  I mean he saved me.  I was very ill, tormented in my mind and body, unable to have a normal life.  Jesus healed my body and mind and opened the way to God for me. I will follow him for the rest of my life, follow him into hell itself if he asks it. I with the other women traveled with him to Jerusalem from Galilee along with the Twelve. 

Did you think that I would stay in that Upper Room when he left it? I slipped behind the men, unnoticed, and walked to the Garden of Gethsemane.  The oil presses loomed solid in the moonlight. I watched Jesus’ agony, watched the Twelve drift into sleep while he prayed. I watched the soldiers come.  

I am here.  I bear witness.

The Mother of John Mark

It is my house where they came to have supper.  The other women and I prepared the meal and served it.  My teenage son, John Mark, was fascinated by Jesus, hanging on every word he spoke.  John Mark stood in the shadows with us and listened during supper until I sent him on to bed. I didn’t know until later that when Jesus and the Twelve left for the garden, John Mark heard them leaving and leapt out of bed, wrapping a sheet around himself, following them to the garden.  He came in very late, not a stitch on, and after he dressed, told me what he saw.  

Jesus struggled in prayer.  It was very quiet, most of those there falling asleep.  Jesus woke them up and told them it was time to leave. Then they heard the march of soldiers and saw the torches lifted high. He realized the men had come to arrest Jesus; he saw Judas identify the Lord with a kiss.  “All day long I teach in public,” Jesus told the soldiers.  “Why are you coming here with swords, at night, to arrest me?” The soldiers grabbed Jesus and John Mark turned to sneak away when a soldier grabbed him by the sheet he was wearing; John Mark managed to get away, leaving the sheet behind.[5]  I have my son safe here with me—but where is my Lord?  Where is Jesus?  

I am here.  I bear witness.

Music Interlude

Joanna

I am Joanna, wife of Chuza, Herod’s steward.  My husband’s boss is a monster. Herod was curious about John the Baptist, so my husband went with him into the wilderness to see him. He should have known better:  John never held anything back and admonished Herod for divorcing his own wife and marrying his brother’s wife.  Herod promptly arrested John and put him in jail.

In that, he gave Chuza and me the greatest gift.  As Chuza tended to John, John told him of Jesus.  I had been ill for years, bound by my sickness; John told Chuza that Jesus could heal me.  John was right; Jesus healed me.  Chuza and I would have done anything for Jesus; but we knew that Herod would never let Chuza go.  In fact, Herod had beheaded John the Baptist. So together Chuza and I planned that I would follow Jesus, learn from him and support his ministry with our wealth.  I then could tell Chuza what I had learned.

Tonight I followed Jesus, my beloved Lord, as he was brought bound into the high priest’s court.  I fear for Jesus.  The chief priest, like Herod, has no mercy, only ambition.  Dear God, what will happen to Jesus?  

I am here.  I bear witness.

The High Priest’s Servant

I am a lowly maid for the high priest. I have not worked here long.  I came up from the country, from a family so poor they do not have enough to feed all of us anymore.  My parents thought that the high priest’s household would be safer for me—I hope they never find out what goes on in this place.  Here at least I have a roof over my head and enough to eat. I see more than I ever dreamed existed as I grew up in my little town.  I see the splendid but I also see evil.  Even though I am in the lowest ranks of servants, cleaning dishes and washing clothes, I see a lot.  Tonight, long after dark, I heard soldiers coming through the gates.  I came out, staying by a charcoal fire to stay warm. They were taking the Galilean Jesus into the palace to stand before the priest.  He is quiet, neither screaming in fear nor shouting his innocence.  That makes for a change—all the prisoners I’ve seen before were loud in their objections. 

I’ve seen Jesus before.  I was at the parade last Sunday, when Jesus and his followers came into Jerusalem.  Now I see another man I recognize, one who was with Jesus.  “You were with Jesus the Galilean,” I say to him.  “I don’t know the man,” he said.

One of my friends up on the porch said, “Yes you are, I saw you with him.”  “I tell you I never met him,” the man shouts back.  Then a man a little bit away said, “I can tell you are a Galilean by your accent.” The man yelled back that he had no idea what we are talking about. Then I hear a rooster crow.  Can it be that late—early morning now?  And I see the man who had been with Jesus, the Galilean we’d been talking with, sobbing.[6]

I am here.  I bear witness.

Narrator

And thus the Light of the World is arrested and judged in darkness.

These women followed Jesus, each in the way they were able.  Some of their names we know; some are known only to God. Each stayed the course, keeping close by Jesus even as he died.  Each went, after the resurrection, to bear witness to the risen Lord.  

So each of us, in the way we are able, are invited to follow Jesus.  In what way will we follow?  And how do we bear witness?

[1] Luke 8:2-3 NRSV

[2] John 13:1-20

3 Luke 22:14-20

[4] Luke 8:2-3

[5] Mark 14:51

[6] Luke 22:54-62

Female Drummers in the Ancient Near East

by McKenzie Brummond

I was drumming at Tootsies, a famous little bar on Broadway in Nashville. Even though it was a Tuesday afternoon, the second floor of the small, dingy, and entirely too purple bar was packed with tourists. Many famous artists got their start performing on the Tootsies circuit, making the dive bar a popular tourist destination. As we finished a song, a highly intoxicated middle-aged man threw a twenty in our tip bucket and yelled, “I love the girl drummer!” Gee, thank you, random citizen. At least he was a good tipper. That being said, the novelty most people associate with girl drummers has always amused me. We smash stereotypes by smashing cymbals.

This is why, while researching women in the Bible, I was astonished to learn that in Ancient Near Eastern cultures, the vast majority of drummers were women. We see a prime biblical example of female drumming in Exodus, when Miriam leads the Israelite women in drumming and dancing upon their liberation from the bonds of slavery in Egypt:

Then the prophet Miriam, Aaron’s sister, took a tambourine

in her hand; and all the women went out after her with

tambourines and with dancing. And Miriam sang to them:

“Sing to the LORD, for he has triumphed gloriously; horse

and rider he has thrown into the sea.” (Exodus 15:20-21, NRSV)

This passage gives us unique insight into the worship of the women of Israel—their praise to YHWH is embellished with drumming and dancing. The God of Israel was worshipped by girl drummers!

 Archaeological evidence supports this idea that drummers in the Ancient Near East were predominantly women. For instance, archaeologists have discovered Iron Age terracotta figurines depicting female drummers. These clay figures, which are typically female, are commonplace among Iron Age artifacts. Scholars have speculated that these renderings could portray fertility figures, or goddesses, but the purpose of these figures remains conjecture. One quality that is evident, however, is that many of these female figurines are depicted holding hand drums. This observation implies that hand drummers in the Iron Age were predominantly women.

 It is interesting to note the way in which our own society has flipped this stereotype on its head—most drummers now seem to be men. As a member of the drumline in college, I can attest to the fact that women were in the minority. Of approximately 36 drummers, only about 7-10 of us were female in a typical year. While the drumline was a prime example of how much men dominate the scene as percussionists, I am grateful for the special sense of comradery shared by the “drummer girls.” This comradery mirrors female drummers in the bible, which attest to the existence of women’s groups in the Ancient Near East. The existence of groups specifically for women are often good for the overall status of women in a society, as these groups are an indication of relative independence and opportunities to build a strong community of women. Girl drummers empower each other and stick together (no pun intended).

I have run into some situations where the role of drums in worship is contested (not unlike the role of women in worship, in some circles). I grew up in a Methodist church where I often played the drums during our contemporary worship service. When I arrived at Notre Dame as a freshman, our dorm liturgical music coordinator was excited that I had brought my cajon (a Latin percussion instrument, or box drum) to play during our dorm masses. However, on more than one occasion, visiting families would object to the use of drums in the mass. I always found it somewhat ironic that a means of worship with such a strong biblical and historical foundation could be found objectionable. But I have always been grateful for the opportunity to express my reverence for God through my talent as a percussionist.

Will Gafney describes drumming as a prophetic activity, and perhaps there is a reason that women are particularly well-suited to this form of prophecy. Because female drummers made up a female community in Israel, it is significant that they played together to prophesy and worship YHWH. Rather than overshadow one another and try to be the star of the show, they used their talents as a beautiful opportunity for fellowship and praise. They praised God by amplifying one another. My high school band teacher used to point out that the drummer is often underappreciated. As the heartbeat of the band, it is rare for an audience to notice when a drummer is playing well, but they will surely notice if the drummer makes a mistake. I have always enjoyed this relative anonymity of the drummer because I see the musicians and instruments as servants to the song itself. I take pride in effectively keeping a steady tempo, in subtly cuing other musicians when they should come in, and in marking transitions in the song with an effective fill. I do not need solos or loud microphones to feel fulfilled as a drummer; for me, playing music is a form of communion in which no one part is greater than the whole. When I read about Miriam leading the women in worship with her hand drum or tambourine, I feel empowered as a female musician to see this fellowship reflected in my own musical communities.

I would like to wrap up this post by highlighting some inspiring female drummers from our own time. Anika Niles from Germany is widely considered to be the greatest female drummer in the world. Another well-known girl drummer is Sarah Thawer; I was especially drawn to her engaging personality! (Her DRUMS ARE THE BEST video literally had me laughing at my desk). Check out this drum off between her and another female drummer, Senri Kawaguchi. As if we needed more reasons to love Prince, both Sheila E. and Cora Coleman Dunham have accompanied him on the drums. And bands like the Summer Set and The Bangles feature female drummers Jess Bowen and Debbi Peterson. I was excited to learn that we girl drummers are part of a long legacy, and it is empowering to know that biblical women helped lay the foundation for a strong community of drummer girls that continues to this day.

Bibliography:

• Daughters of Miriam: Women Prophets in Ancient Israel by Wilda Gafney (2008)

• “Miriam” Season 2, Episode 3 of Not Your Grandma’s Bible Study Podcast (April 1, 2020)

• “Of Drums and Damsels: Women’s Performance in Ancient Israel” by Carol L. Meyers (pp. 16-27) in The Biblical Archaeologist (1991)

• “Women with Hand-Drums, Dancing: Bible” by Carol Meyers (June 23, 2021)

• “16 Best Female Drummers of Today” in Drum! Magazine

McKenzie Brummond earned her Master of Religion degree from Yale University and holds a Bachelor degree of Liberal Arts from Notre Dame. Interested in music and theological principles, McKenzie spends her time contemplating the intersection of musical worship and theological study.

Should We Read the Bible Critically?

by McKenzie Brummond

The academic discipline of biblical studies hinges upon the act of reading the Bible critically. However, it can be difficult for people of faith to reconcile following the canon faithfully with reading it critically. First, perhaps I should clarify that to read critically does not necessarily mean to criticize a text, but to engage with it by asking questions and acknowledging multiple levels of meaning. As such, I argue that it is not only possible to read Scripture both faithfully and critically, but that reading the Bible both faithfully and critically can help devout followers of God to grow in their faith. 

Reading the Bible critically allows us to perceive its full complexity as a living document. For Jewish and Christian communities, the Bible is the revealed word of God. However, its divinely inspired status does not mean that the Bible was simply dropped from the heavens in its current form. The Bible is composed of numerous works by a variety of human authors, and it includes genres ranging from poetry, to proverbs, to narrative, to law (to name a few). Certainly, the process of identifying the canon was guided by the Holy Spirit. But we must acknowledge that even human beings guided by the Spirit are influenced by their own biases, culture, and era. How else can we account for the fact that Jewish, Catholic, and Protestant communities each have different canons? Acknowledging its complexity as we read the Bible allows us to take part in a long tradition of biblical interpretation and connects us to early Christians who played a part in shaping the biblical canon we still use today. Holding Scripture as the holy word of God in tension with its human influences allows us to both honor Scripture’s authority and recognize its potential to be tainted by human agenda. That being said, there is beauty in how diverse voices shine through the biblical text. The Bible’s multiplicity of voices exemplifies for us the communion of saints. Interacting with Scripture through critical reading brings us into closer communion with our ancestors in faith and with God. 

Reading the Bible critically can also help us to grow in our relationship with God. Scripture itself is teeming with examples of faithful servants of God who argue and wrestle with Him. Abraham negotiates with God over the fate of Sodom and Gomorrah; Jacob wrestles with God in the desert; and the Syro-Phoenician woman verbally spars with Jesus so her daughter may be healed. We can find inspiration in biblical figures such as these. In the same way God’s most devout followers have always conversed with God, actively reading and questioning God’s word as conveyed in the Bible helps us to foster an active relationship with God.

 Critical reading of the Bible has the potential to strengthen our faith. The process of learning involves active inquiry on the part of the student. In other words, we learn about our faith by asking questions about it. As a fundamental document for the Judeo-Christian tradition, the Bible is a natural guidepost for our questions. Whether or not we encounter answers to these questions, actively engaging with the word of God demonstrates care for our faith. I like to think of my faith like a muscle—I need to frequently test it and work it out if I want it to grow. If I never think about my faith or ask questions about God and Scripture, I cannot earnestly claim a strong faith in God. Going through the motions of our faith without actively engaging can lead our faith muscles to atrophy.

 The Bible is a fundamental source of revelation for both Judaism and Christianity. Because it is a source of divine revelation, it can be all too easy for us to believe that the Bible is above questioning. However, sometimes an attitude of prayerful questioning is precisely the best tool to help our faith to grow. As Rachel Held Evans writes, “I am indebted to those who have gone before me, those saints of holy curiosity whose lives of faithful questioning taught me not to fear my doubts, but to embrace and learn from them” (Inspired, p. xix). Lord, let us endeavor to lead lives of faithful questioning, that we may grow in faith, wisdom, and relationship with You. 

References and Further Reading

• “Excerpt: ‘How to Read the Bible’” by Marc Zvi Brettler on “Fresh Air,” NPR (January 30, 2006)

• Inspired: Slaying Giants, Walking on Water, and Loving the Bible Again by Rachel Held Evans (2018)

• “The Paradigm” podcast series from Bible Project (2021)

• “The Woman Who Won an Argument With Jesus” blog post by Gary Taylor on Missio Alliance (July 31, 2014)

• Women and the Authority of Scripture: A Narrative Approach by Sarah Heaner Lancaster, Trinity Press International (2002)

McKenzie Brummond earned her Master of Religion degree from Yale University and holds a Bachelor degree of Liberal Arts from Notre Dame. Interested in music and theological principles, McKenzie spends her time contemplating the intersection of musical worship and theological study.

Interview with Rabbi Lynne Goldsmith

by Anna Grace Glaize

Rabbi Lynne Goldsmith earned her Rabbinic Ordination from Hebrew Union College. She was the rabbi of Temple Emanu-el in Dothan, Alabama from her ordination in 2007 to her retirement in 2017.  Prior to becoming a rabbi, she was an accountant for 25 years.  She and her husband Rob relocated to Broomfield, CO to be closer to family. Rabbi Goldsmith works part-time as the rabbi at Temple Or Hadash in Fort Collins, with the Adventure Rabbi, and is active in the Boulder Rabbinic community. Our interview with Rabbi Goldsmith was recorded on October 19 via Zoom and edited for clarity and length. 

AGG: From your bio, who is the adventure rabbi?!

Rabbi Lynne: The adventure rabbi! The adventure rabbi’s name is actually Rabbi Jamie Korngold. She is based out of Boulder…Boulder’s a very outdoorsy place. A lot of great hiking, a couple of mountains...What Jamie discovered is a lot of people fell out of Judaism because they couldn’t fit into the synagogue, Hebrew school mold, and they just didn’t like it. So she offers an alternative. She doesn’t have a building, so she does most of her work outdoors, which is awesome. She has Shabbat on skis. She has Shabbat services up on top of Flagstaff Mountain, which is absolutely gorgeous.

AGG: During Covid when the only safe places are outside, she had the framework all there. 

Rabbi Lynne: Oh yeah. That’s what she said, “I’m ahead of the curve!”...I’ve actually done two weddings in hiking boots, because we had to hike to the place where we were actually gonna do the wedding, and I did one in a blizzard—outside! 

AGG: Did you have a favorite woman in the Bible when you were growing up?

Rabbi Lynne: No, and I’ll tell you why. There are actually two reasons. I’m a little older. I’m 70. When I started religious school, it was probably 1957, and my parents were what I would call submarine protestants. They were under the surface for most of the year and then surfaced on Christmas and Easter and then went back underground. So I didn’t get a lot of religious school. They were good at starting us out, but about six or seven weeks into it they got tired of getting up in the morning, so we stopped going to religious school. I do remember we learned about Abraham, and we learned about Jesus. I kinda thought they were brothers because every year we got Abraham and Jesus...But we never ever got anything about a woman in the Bible. The only one I can tell you about that I knew at all was Mary... She was Jesus’ mother and that’s all I knew. She was the only biblical woman—seriously—the only biblical woman that I knew of until much, much later.

AGG: Is there now a biblical woman that you feel connected to? 

Rabbi Lynne: Maybe because we read the Torah on a yearly cycle and we’re in Genesis now, and we just finished the Torah portion where Abraham and Sarah (Abram and Sarai at that point) left and were heading out into the wilderness following God. I’ve always wondered about Sarah...My favorite’s when God says she’d have a baby at 90, I’m thinking I would’ve cried!.. She seems to follow Abraham. Whatever he did, she follows him. There was a midrash [rabbinic biblical interpretation] written by a woman rabbi actually, and she did a conversation between Sarah and Abraham. Abraham’s saying “We’re leaving. God told me we have to leave.” And Sarah’s saying, “What are you talking about?! I’m gonna leave all my sisters and brothers? My mother and father?” She said, “If you want me to go, I wanna talk to Him.”

AGG: Something was left out. We missed some of that response. She couldn’t have just said, “Yes.”

Rabbi Lynne: There totally was. When he left and took Isaac with him up to Mt. Moriah, did she know?! We don’t know...There’s been tons and tons and tons of midrash written about it, but we don’t know what happened. She had to have known something was up...Midrash lets you know that we’re not the first generation to have thought about this. They were thinking about this way, way back.

AGG: Is there a Bible story or passage about women that troubles you?

Rabbi Lynne: Yeah. It’s later on in the text. It’s not in the Torah. It’s the prostitute that gets thrown out of the house and beaten and raped and thrown back on the steps. That’s it. It’s the end of her life. What bothers me so much is that women were objectified back then, too, and women are still objectified today. What happened to her is still going on. That is probably what troubles me most. I like to think it’s not happening in the United States, but I’m sure it does….It hurts. It hurts to read it. Thank goodness it’s not part of the Torah so we don’t have to read it over and over again. It’s not a good story.

AGG: How do you deal with those dark stories in your sacred text?

Rabbi Lynne: It’s life. I mean, life is not all butterflies and bunnies. Dark things happen. Bad things happen to people, even very good people. And I know that sounds trite, but it’s so true. Horrible, horrible things happen to both women and men in the Bible. But it’s mostly women. Sometimes we tread it very lightly, but I think it’s there for a reason. It’s there for us to look at and to deal with the uncomfortable feelings we have when we read it. But that story in particular horrifies me every time I look at it. 

 AGG: As a religious leader, how do you help your community navigate those difficult stories?

 Rabbi Lynne: Two ways. Number one, it’s life. The Bible doesn’t present, like, a lollipop view of life. The Bible presents life as it is. And bad, horrible things happen whether or not you blame it on God or you blame it on people. Horrible things happen. The second thing is I don’t believe the Bible was written by God. I believe that men—and I do believe it was men—wrote the Bible. Their prejudices are showing, and it’s also a product of their age. What was happening then is not happening now...There are a lot of things in the Bible that pertain only to the lives that they were living then as opposed to the lives we’re living today. There’s somewhere—and it might be in rabbinic lit—about the 70 faces of the Torah. That the Torah is written to interpret. It’s there, but our interpretation and what we do with it is what counts…People will take the Bible that they’re holding in their hands and think it’s the gospel truth, and what it is is a translation of a translation. When you’re translating—and I’ve done this, too—particularly the Torah which has no vowels, we’re guessing from context. My prejudices are going to be in my translation. I’m interpreting as I translate. 

 AGG: Even the phrase “gospel truth” has some trouble since we have four gospels.

Rabbi Lynne: I seriously didn’t know until I was in seminary, and we took a course on Christian scriptures, which by the way was required for us before we could be ordained, that the stories are all different! I had no idea.

 AGG: You were raised protestant but became a rabbi?

 Rabbi Lynne: Well, I converted in between…My parents did not bring us up particularly religiously, and the older we got the less religion we did. I think I probably dropped out of Sunday School for good when I was eight, and that was a long time ago. I was confirmed, but I was only confirmed because my best friend was being confirmed...My husband is Jewish. We got married fairly young...and we moved to Lexington, Kentucky. We’d been married, I don’t know, a couple years, and he came home from work one day, and he said, “I gotta go find some Jews! I can’t take it anymore.” So I said, “Okay.” The rabbi delivered a really good sermon that night...I loved the prayer book. I loved the emphasis on the here and now, and not, you know, heaven—be good so ​​you can go to heaven. Be good here because you should, and this is what we need to do. I liked that. So, I went to the rabbi and said, “I need some books or something because I don’t know anything about Judaism. I mean, other than the fact you don’t celebrate Christmas, I know nothing!” He said, “Fine, I just started a conversion class.” And I said, “Well, I don’t want to convert.” And he said, “Fine!” So I joined the class, and it was six or seven months. I went every week, and he gave us a new book every week. I still have some of those books...At the end of the class, I liked that we could question things, I liked that there was no one interpretation, I liked that God was not something you could define, that He wasn’t a big guy in heaven with a long beard...A child’s idea of God is not the same as a teen’s, and it's not the same as a young adult’s, and it’s certainly not the same as a grandmother at age 70. So, I really liked all of that and resonated with it and ended up converting. The rabbi thing came later.

AGG: Are there any things you wish that modern women could take from the stories of biblical women?

 Rabbi Lynne: Oh God yes! I’ll tell you what...they worked with what they had. They got done what they needed to get done. I just thought that was fantastic. The women in the Bible did so much. They have a huge role. And we don’t give them enough credit. One of my favorite stories is Tamar and Judah. In order for her to be impregnated, she had to know exactly where in her cycle she was...Or Ruth. I mean, Ruth and Naomi were both in horrible straights. They were in the worst straights you could be as a biblical woman. She did what she needed to do and look where she ended up—she’s like the great-grandmother of David.

I thought of it in terms of the #MeToo movement. Back in the late 70s and early 80s when I was working in a corporation, there was a lot of bad stuff that happened back then. We learned stuff in the ladies’ room. We learned who not to sit next to in meetings, we learned who not to get in an elevator with, who not to be too close to, and why. That was us doing what we needed to do...I’m so glad now, I love what’s happening in the #MeToo movement.

AGG: One of my favorite biblical women rediscoveries has been Bathsheba...Rediscovering basically that that is a #MeToo story, and she was responsible in large part for making Solomon the king.

Rabbi Lynne: And you talk about an untenable position. And David shouldn’t have been there—what was he doing there in a time of war! But then she turned it around. Like I said, using what you have.

Rabbi Lynne’s Recommended Reading: 

• Basic Judaism by Milton Steinberg

• What is a Jew? by Morris Kertzer

• The Dignity of Difference by Jonathan Sacks

• The Gospel Without Jesus by Amy Jill-Levine

Interview with Dawn Hare: On the Bible, Wisdom, and How Improv Helps Interpretation

by Anna Grace Glaize

Dawn Hare

Dawn Hare is the General Secretary of the General Commission on the Status and Role of Women in the United Methodist Church. She’s also from Anna Grace’s hometown of Brewton, AL. This interview was conducted on October 8 via Zoom and edited for clarity and length. 

AG: So Dawn, could you please tell me a little bit about your role with COSROW and what COSROW does for the Methodist church?

DAWN: Absolutely. Well, and let me just say, the first thing is that people use all kinds of acronyms in the United Methodist Church.

AG (laughing): I know!

DAWN: It’s part of who we are…But what it stands for is the General Commission on the Status and Role of Women. We are one of the 13 agencies of the United Methodist Church. Folks..in our particular area have a passion for ministry...And ours is directed to the equality of women in the United Methodist Church and, by model and example, in the “kin-dom” of God and in the world.

AG: So now our women in the Bible questions...Did you have a favorite woman in the Bible growing up? 

DAWN: You know, I’ve thought about this before and you’re gonna be disappointed by my answer. No! And I thought about that hard, and I remember as a child—I mean a little child—the person in the Bible that I most wanted to be like was—

AG: Are you gonna say Jesus?!

DAWN [laughing]: No! I’m not...No, it was Solomon! I remember sitting on a pew in church...and praying, “Dear God, could you give me the gift of wisdom?” I thought wisdom was the ultimate gift when I was growing up, and I just wanted to be like Solomon…Now, what comes around is when you become General Secretary on the General Commission on the Status and Role of Women, and you start studying women in the Bible, and you start studying the feminine aspects of God, and you realize that wisdom—duh! [Wisdom is often personified as a woman in the Bible]...So maybe God was speaking to me as a small child, and I didn’t even know it. But anyway, that’s another story!

AG: That brings us to now. Is there now a biblical woman that you feel, if not your favorite, that you feel close to at the moment? Or you identify with? 

DAWN: I think more of the qualities of people than the people. Just like I was drawn to wisdom and it happened to be embodied in Solomon, and Sophia [meaning ‘wisdom’ in Greek]...I tend to be drawn to women who show courage because that’s something I’m always checking about myself. Am I having the courage I need to have in this moment? Or am I backing away? And it’s, you know, the courage of announcing that He is risen, the courage of talking to Jesus at the well. I mean the courage it took to take on the system and say, “We want this land. It was our father’s!” I think it’s not so much the characters as the character of women in the Bible that I’ve been drawn to.

AG: That’s great. So now, maybe you’ve worked through this...but I still encounter it when I read the Bible... Is there a Bible story or passage that just annoys you or that you hate or just gets under your skin? ‘Cause even when I read the commentaries on those and I can try to put it in context, there are still times when I read something, and I just don’t like it. Don’t like it AT. ALL.

DAWN: Yeah, I think I just shared with you the one I don’t like! And that is the ultimate mansplaining. For Christ’s resurrection to be announced by a woman, and then for the men to go forth and take credit for knowing it and claiming it… I think that just continues to be annoying. I heard one time long ago that if we were really living and telling scripture, every Easter morning that there would be a clergywoman or a laywoman or some woman that would get up in the pulpit and would say the words “He is risen.” And I have to think what an incredibly powerful Easter around the world it would be if from every pulpit… if the word that Christ is risen was announced as it was first heard—from the voice of a woman.

AG: So I had a TA...she said that the short answer to “Is the Bible a misogynistic text?” was “No.”... But the slightly longer answer, and the more truthful answer, is “it’s complicated.” So as a modern woman yourself, and as a woman of faith—which I think maybe makes the stakes a little different—how do you navigate reading the Bible as an ancient text...and as a spiritual text?

DAWN: Wow. You know, I think you just have to read it in the spirit of Second City [an improvisational comedy troupe], which is “Yes, And.” And know that yes, there are some parts that are really misogynistic. But those don’t come from Jesus. Those tend to come from, if you just peel some layers off, they tend to come from probably whoever sat down and wrote it down or translated it or the culture of the time...You know, we led a training earlier this week, and a piece of that was implicit bias, and that we all have biases. All of us. Well, that goes for the people who actually wrote the Bible down, too. 

AG: Love Second City. Always fun to give them a shout-out! So, finally, what lessons do you hope women today can take from the women in the Bible?

DAWN: Oh, I just think there’s so much richness to learn. To just reexplore things you think you know. You know, there was a saying when I was growing up that every time you opened the Bible and read a passage, you’d find something else or you’d explore something else. That is so much more true when you have a resource like Women in the Bible…I think, especially growing up in the South, sometimes there’s a feeling that you can’t question authority, or you can’t question the way something’s been taught to you. You can’t or a lightning bolt will come and get you. But my God is bigger than that. And it’s a wonderful thing to know that you can read a text, you can read it a different way, you can read it with one set of authorities, you can read it from a different set of authorities, and you can ask God some hard questions and try to seek the answer. Our faith’s strong enough to handle that. So I just think that Women in the Bible is a wonderful resource for the richness it offers us.

Anna Grace Glaize earned her Master of Divinity from Yale Divinity School and her Bachelor of Arts in English-Literature and Philosophy from Auburn University. Her interests include theology and popular culture, true crime podcasts, and food adventures.

Tips for Critical Reading (Part 2)

by McKenzie Brummond

In a previous blog post (Tips for Critical Reading Part 1) we shared five tips on how to read texts critically and effectively. Today we’re adding to that list, plus giving you 10 questions that you should ask as a critical reader. Read tips 6 through 10 below!

6. Annotate. Whether or not you want to take notes depends on your goals and your learning style. Some people may like to highlight key words and ideas in the text. Others may want to take detailed notes in a journal as they read. Whatever method helps you to retain the information is best!

7. Determine the main idea and purpose. We often forget that the main idea and purpose of a source are two different things. The main idea is a summary of the main point of the source, whereas the purpose is the author’s goal. E.g. The main idea of an argument may be that pineapple does not belong on pizza, but the author’s purpose would be to persuade the reader to share this opinion.

8. Consult dissenting opinions. I love to post dissenting resources on this site, because it is evidence that even educated, qualified, and peer-reviewed authors can still come to different conclusions about the same issue. Reading compelling arguments for the opposing view can broaden your perspective and help you to become a more critical reader.

9. Read the bibliography. Reading the bibliography serves two purposes: First, it allows you as the reader to evaluate the credibility of the author’s source material. Second, the bibliography can be a fruitful place to find further reading on the subject at hand.

10.  Self-evaluate. To read critically, one cannot grow complacent. Continue to ask yourself, am I taking this author’s arguments at face value? How are her biases influencing her argument? How are my biases influencing my interpretation? Like any new skill, critical reading requires diligent practice.

10 Questions Critical Readers Should Ask

1. Is this source relevant to my research questions?

2. What are the key ideas presented in this source? Are there any terms I need to look up?

3. Is this author qualified to write about this subject? What biases does the author(s) have that might influence their position?

4. What biases am I bringing to the text that might influence my interpretation?

5. Is this source peer reviewed?

6. What is the source trying to say?

7. What is the purpose of this source? What is the author’s goal?

8. Are there dissenting opinions on this subject? What are the opposing arguments?

9. Does this source cite other sources in its bibliography? Are these sources reliable?

10.  What do I think about this question? Has the source answered my question(s)? Has the source given me a new perspective?

McKenzie Brummond earned her Master of Religion degree from Yale University and holds a Bachelor degree of Liberal Arts from Notre Dame. Interested in music and theological principles, McKenzie spends her time contemplating the intersection of musical worship and theological study.

Tips for Critical Reading (Part 1)

by McKenzie Brummond

1. Scan the source. Before you begin reading a source, scan headings and keywords to ensure that it is relevant to your research. Make sure the source addresses your guiding questions. Your time is valuable! Make sure you invest it in relevant material. 

2. Before you read the text, read the author. This is a step I often take before adding a resource to the website. If you are unfamiliar with the author of a source, it would behoove you to find a bio of the author online. This step can reveal the author’s credibility and biases, as biographical information often includes the author’s educational background, qualifications, and religious, denominational, and/or political affiliations.

3. Take stock of biases. These include the biases of the author(s) as well as your own biases. For instance, if you are a mainline Protestant reading work by a Catholic writer, it is worth noting that you and the author are operating within different theological frameworks.

4. Pay attention to the reviews. Is the source peer reviewed? Is it reviewed or evaluated in other sources? If so, reading these reviews gives insight into the content and arguments presented in the source and may do a lot of the heavy lifting for you when it comes to critical reading.  

5. Have a conversation with the text. Normal people might just call this step “active reading,” but I like to think of it like having a conversation with the text. I ask the text questions, offer rebuttals, and clarify concepts that might be confusing at first glance.

McKenzie Brummond earned her Master of Religion degree from Yale University and holds a Bachelor degree of Liberal Arts from Notre Dame. Interested in music and theological principles, McKenzie spends her time contemplating the intersection of musical worship and theological study.